The October 17 Supreme Court of Administrative Decision
The Supreme Court chose not to change Rayong Court order which lifted the injunction. Because Rayong Court used a expert witness in making their decision the court chose not to interfere.
We wait for the translation which we will post on this blog.
113 comments:
Anonymous
said...
What a cop-out,an abdication of responsibility. They bottled it.
Sad, and the wrong decision. But predictable I suppose. Bad luck. Not only for you, but for many people with a plot of land in front of their home near the sea.
Interesting that Ocean 1 seems to have got away with stealing millions in investors' deposits, while VT7 is given a carte blanche to continue building an illegal structure!
Honestly, who in their right mind would ever invest an honest penny in Thailand?
"Honestly, who in their right mind would ever invest an honest penny in Thailand?"
Quite on the contrary. Now people can invest with confidence knowing that when the City of Pattaya issues a construction permit and a project complies with environmental review regulations it can go forward. This should help the condo market in these down time (excluding of course JCC).
The question now is whether VT will sue JCC to recoup lost money?
It will be interesting to read the English translation of this decision.
Is this actually a final decision on the case? It seems to me the SAC was asked to either re-impose the injunction or decide what the law was. All it looks to have done is decided to do nothing, and let Rayong get on with it. So the injunction remains lifted, but has Rayong now got to give its final decision,legal or illegal?. Following this,is it then back to SAC for appeal? I am troubled if the SAC has put the expert witness on an untouchable pedestal.
It goes back to the Rayong Court pending final verdict but it is clear what that verdict will be pending something unforeseen. The question is will stopVT7 appeal that decision now knowing this SC decision?
But isn,t that the issue here. Why are both Rayong and SAC only interested in dealing with this one expert witness? What about the views of all the other interested parties,where is the democracy being demonstrated in the courts view that only this guys opinion matters.Where are the checks and balances being undertaken. This isn't democratic its akin to dictatorship. Many so called experts have caused great problems for innocent people in courts, only to be exposed as frauds in later years, after the damage has been done. I cannot see why the courts have invested everything in this one guy, and I am sure National Thai figures,and International figures cannot either.
You missed the point. StopVT7 had the chance to present their own witnesses to strengthen their case but didn't. The expert witness only repeated what was in the Court ordered survey and report. All the evidence is now in the hands of the Court.
My understanding is that the latest admin court ruling relates to a claim that city hall erroneously issued the building permit under the(old)clause 8 rule instead of the (new) clause 9 rule. Even if City Hall had been found in error VT7 (now up to 24 floors) would argue that it acted in good faith and that it would be unreasonable to now revoke the permit. What-ever now happens, it ain'tcoming down!
"Interesting that Ocean 1 seems to have got away with stealing millions in investors' deposits"
All deposits paid are into a trust account and in the event of the project being cancelled (which it's not at this point in time) have to be returned to investors.
The original claim was that City Hall issued the permit erroneously. (The Rayong court added VT7s name afterwards)Any way you cut it, VT7 can easily claim it acted in good faith within this context.
Presumably this site is awaiting the English translation of the Supreme court reading before providing us with additional information. But WHY? Surely you have been in consultation w/ the lawyer and must have some idea of options - if any - and what is planned for the future. Those of us who have supported you financially as well as morally deserve to be kept informed. Please provide us with your most current information. At the very least, I think we ought to know whether or not this case is over.
As a famous baseball philosopher once said "it ain't over till its over". The Rayong Court has not given it's final decision and if unfavorable it can always be appealed.
I can see a very Thai solution coming. VT7 which must be very close to topping out will be built and completed. The Thai court will rule that 200 meters from the mean sea level is correct, BUT will not apply to currently excisting structures, and will be enforced from a certain date forward.
"The Thai court will rule that 200 meters from the mean sea level is correct, BUT will not apply to currently excisting structures, and will be enforced from a certain date forward."
Why would they do that when they (Rayond Court and SC) have already permitted to build 100 meters from MSL? To grandfather VT7 would be like a slap in the face. They could not let VT7 go forward if they rule 200 meters from MSL because the building would be illegal. Do you really think they will reverse themselves and go against the Bangkok Dept of Engineering report?
"The Thai court will rule that 200 meters from the mean sea level is correct, BUT will not apply to currently excisting structures, and will be enforced from a certain date forward."
This is probably the most likely possibility in the circs. Pretty foolish, methinks, to spend more time & money on lawyers, etc. waiting for the Rayong result we all know is coming. They have done everything possible - apart from an actual judgement - to make it clear they have no intention of reversing VT7.And then an appeal with the hope of tearing down VT7's 27-storey bldg?? There is a time to admit defeat & this seems like one of those. Move on.
"The Thai court will rule that 200 meters from the mean sea level is correct, BUT will not apply to currently excisting structures, and will be enforced from a certain date forward."
This is probably the most likely possibility in the circs. Pretty foolish, methinks, to spend more time & money on lawyers, etc. waiting for the Rayong result we all know is coming. They have done everything possible - apart from an actual judgement - to make it clear they have no intention of reversing VT7.And then an appeal with the hope of tearing down VT7's 27-storey bldg?? There is a time to admit defeat & this seems like one of those. Move on.
You can finally put "I like this little man, he makes me laugh" to rest.
The only thing you reached for me is that I just sold my 3 units in VT7 with a nice profit. I got sick from all the waiting and your nonsense fight. I bought a nice house in the mountains now, far away from you and VT7.
The dubious thai judges and court witnesses must be very pleased for you. Always remember... , all the decent hardworking Thai's and farangs this so called Thai legal system has trampled all over to get you your house in the mountains. Another saying...what goes around comes around...I hope quickly for your sort.
Why the decision of the supreme court is kept a secret for the JCC co-owners? Everytime you published "we won" . Now it's clear that you lost everything and you took the money of the co-owners for your hobby. So it would be fair if you informed them that you spoiled their money and lost everything!!
There had better damned well be a detailed account of your activities to the JCC owners, and it better be good. The cats have exited the bag, so let's not have anymore of this "confidentiality" crap.
And lets also know who has taken the view talay money in this sordid , tainted court case. The Thai chief justice really needs to be asking himself just what was the purpose in setting up this so called independent Supreme administrative court, whose job was to root out corruption, not sleep with it. The message has gone out loud and clear to the international comunity,"stay clear of thailand or you'll get shafted good-style "
Any news out there on the status of the Regatta in front of Jomtien Condotel? I beleive that this dev't was even pushing the limits within 100m by at least a few metres.
I still believe that a 200m setback was still the true intent of issue 9 but that the view thalay developers hold too much clout to be ruled against.
"The message has gone out loud and clear to the international comunity,"stay clear of thailand or you'll get shafted good-style"
BS. The real message sent is that all buyers (both Thai and international) can have confidence that when a project passes all regulatory hurdles and is granted a building permit that the project can go forward as promised.
"And lets also know who has taken the view talay money in this sordid , tainted court case. The Thai chief justice really needs to be asking himself just what was the purpose in setting up this so called independent Supreme administrative court, whose job was to root out corruption, not sleep with it."
Sore loser. Unsupported allegations and character assassination.
BS. The real message sent is that all buyers (both Thai and international) can have confidence that when a project passes all regulatory hurdles and is granted a building permit that the project can go forward as promised.
Oh yeh... but what about all the legal hurdles, how does it get past them ? and promises to who... the developer?, certainly not JCC residents. Loud and clear !!
The smell of roses. What it has demonstrated is that a group of self centred,egotistical blowhard newcomers; can not exploit the legal system to bully and stop a legitimate, fully legal and approved building project. StopVT7 and supporters will have little sympathy from the population in general when their victims seek just retribution. As has been said, many times, Thailand is a land of laws. Those laws include the concept of monetry damages.
So Tammi after so many times leaking StopV.7 arse, you got nothing out of it. He didn’t even fuck you. He got money from JCC and went for holiday. He really fucked you up. Some suckers never learn. Suggest got together with another sucker MikeonetimeinBangok and make sucker club. You are all both old and stupid. Some people never learn. You might as well sell your stupid arse on the beach road for 500 bahts. Consider it expensive. You have never learn till now so stay stupid. And for your wish for people losing money I hope you will soon die and your kids and your family will die soon.
well what a load of trash many of the pro view talay people are... real low trash... or maybe it is just one or two mental retards writing the same old hate.
obviously they wouldnt appreciate a real beach scene with colour anyway.
a sad human that worships a concrete box shat out by a self worshiping developer..
The smell of roses. What it has demonstrated is that a group of self centred,egotistical blowhard newcomers; can not exploit the legal system to bully and stop a legitimate, fully legal and approved building project.
LOL.. What it has demonstrated to the international comunity is that Thailand is more bent and corrupt today than it ever was.
Are you the best that the vt investors can put up here. We notice you have to hide behind anonimity to release your tirade. You havn't the guts to put your name to it, and we don't mean your nick!! Chicken... Chicken...Chicken.. say no more.
Obviously it hurts you. I give you a clue. I am a girl sucking a dick from N.Y.player. I am pushing double 00 with 5 in front. Work it out you stupid motherfuckers. I am glad that motherfucker lost. In Brooklyn he would be dead. You think I can lose all of that, sorry that motherfucker is just a nuisance. It can be easily liquidated.
well what a load of trash many of the pro view talay people are... real low trash... or maybe it is just one or two mental retards writing the same old hate.
obviously they wouldnt appreciate a real beach scene with colour anyway.
a sad human that worships a concrete box shat out by a self worshiping developer
Just put in your stupid head that buildings can be build. All the round the world is happening. And I have nothing against for stopVt.7 to buy dictionary. He took all the money for everything else. Even for his holliday.All money lost.What that dick head has had to say.I don’t’ want to pay for his hoppy.
Tammi is the guy who licked the arse of stopV7.Thet both lost big time. They wanted people to lose money. Now I hope they lose big time. I just wish coma come back to them and they pay for that. So Tammi gonna paid for that and stopVT7 gonna be kicked out of Thailand. And that’s when fat lady gonna stop singing,
it looks like mr/ mrs view talay are posting here and are not happy that vt7 cost them some of the suckers cash from the poor suckers who bought into their pathetic buildings.
may the economic crashes of the world rain down on the party
I don't see what the idiot is making all the fuss about, Rayong have still to deliver. The SAC have quite correctly shoved it back to Rayong with the message ..you got us into this mess so you get us out of it. Thai reputation is on the line with these Rayong "judges". Everybody worldwide knows its a stitch up, Rayong introduced the expert witness and the SAC won't go near him. Stinky. Come on Rayong judges, keep whatever credibility you have left.
Tasteless, I'm guessing native Thai-speaking person who uses "mother-fucker" every 3rd word and issues death threats to adversaries and their FAMILIES (??): Someone very like you was recently booted off TVforum. What happened? Fingers got burned when you batted for stopvt7?
As a passive observer to all of this, here is my "6 peneth" of thoughts. In western society the balance of power has switched from those with capital, towards those minority groups who scream the loudest (anti development, greenies, environmentalists & self interest groups.) In asian culture that hasn't yet happened and the law will continue to support developers over "luddites." You also have to remember that the 200 metre rule was introduced post-sunami and is primarily targetted at areas that could again be devastated. It has nothing to do with sustainable development or preserving beaches per say. Rayong / Pattaya is not in the high sunami risk category and the 200 metre rule is seen as largely academic. Therefore VT 7 will be completed and the 200 m rule will continue to be interpreted in Rayong with pragmatic thai flexibility. Farangs who try to oppose the collective thai will, will continue to be given short shrift. Stop VT7 never stood a chance of success and futher protestations are, in my humble view, doomed.(I'm posting anonymous.... call me Biggles.)
"You also have to remember that the 200 metre rule was introduced post-sunami and is primarily targetted at areas that could again be devastated. It has nothing to do with sustainable development or preserving beaches per say."
The 200 metre rule in Pattaya was introduced with the adoption of Issue 9 over 20 years ago and has nothing to do with a sunami. Issue 9 is an Environmental Law to protect Thailand's shoreline. The Court simply had to decide the measuring point for the 200 metres. StopVt7 said measure from the MSL and the City of Pattaya said measure from Construction Control Line as shown on the map. The Courts after ordering a survey and report said the City of Pattaya was correct.
because i believe that a beach environment is for all society, that water quality should be best retained for marine life and human pleasure... i would be a greeenie, ludite...
you are a selfish dickhead then.
i hope you like to eat you seafood fool of toxins... wanker
as for the 200m rule and tsunami explanation, you just revealed how uneducated you are.
The 200 metre rule in Pattaya was introduced with the adoption of Issue 9 over 20 years ago and has nothing to do with a sunami. Issue 9 is an Environmental Law to protect Thailand's shoreline. The Court simply had to decide the measuring point for the 200 metres.
That's quite correct. But for some reason the court's are not enforcing it in the manner it was introduced ie an environmental law. The courts current view makes issue 9 more onerous and harmful to the environment than its predecessor issue 8.
This begs 2 questions,
1. Was issue 9 really introduced to be worse for the environment than issue 8??
2.what is going on in the legal process for the court to adopt this backward looking opinion??
I think we all know the only rational answer to these questions $$$
I think that's a great point about Mr/Mrs view talay posting on here.
Have Mr/Mrs view talay got the guts to come on here and explain their case?? Have they got the guts to come on here and defend the situation?? Have they got the guts to come on here and face some public scrutiny about what they are responsible for??
And what about the jokers in city hall, who are they accountable to??
or are they just little chickens hiding behind a dubious legal system??
Lost your point there, sounds to me like the nerd is a vt7 investor, not a stopvt supporter?
04 November, 2008
VT7 won - why would one of them write such crap? No, the only ones writing out of control during this case have been stopvt7.Check out TVforum back pages. (one of the things that has made it so hard to support these people.)This appears to be an internal dog-fight.
VT7 won - why would one of them write such crap? No, the only ones writing out of control during this case have been stopvt7.Check out TVforum back pages. (one of the things that has made it so hard to support these people.)This appears to be an internal dog-fight
I can see your reasoning but I still think its an investor who came close to getting called in. The TVforum is also full of vitriolic personal attacks and character assassinations of the stop vt group. Some would see your view as an attempt to divide the opposition.
Is this the End? Or will the translation be soon on this blog. Why it take so long ? VT send letter to all the buyers to pay their payments. Thus this means that they winn.
And the legal cost gona be paid by JC co-owners. They that ones who suffer from the action from that bully stopVT7. He got kicked out of every forum as he cannot confirm to any standard. He is a bully and an idiot. And he hired another idiot OneMikeinBangkok, who has got his blog site to fight his case. They are both idiots and should be kicked out of Thailand. My reliable sources tell me that StopVT7 days are counted. He is a dead meat. Pardon me he still can get money from co-owners for his holiday.
And on personal notice, never deal with OneMikeinBangkok, alias Black Pudding and Agelguru, they both took money from co-owners of JCC and split it together. They are both crooks but stopVT7 got the chunk of that. I just hope when you find him he has his dictionary with him. Or you have to call Tammi to leak his arse for him. And for you Agelguru , small time crook, leave some space for the comment. And leave your mouth open for 2 dicks coming in. What you did for the children. Another dick head.
Why this translation take so long, Why there is no answer wheter this is the final desicion or not? It seems to me that the game is over and that they have done it the Thai way. Foreigner will never understand the Thai way.
Neither will all the Thai Nationals who live in JCC and all the other buildings which now stand to have a high rise built directly in front of them. Corruption is alive and thriving in Thailand, time to turn the light off.
"Big developers are prone to busts in such business conditions and VT seem to have been expanding their rubbish beyond a standard scale."
Yes, there are always big risks for a developer and justly so in light of these rough economic times. VT has sold enough units already to make a profit but it the flippers who are now left holding the bag and must finalize their contract payments or return the unit(s) to VT. Poor VT.
Jesus! Was anyone else kept awake early hours this morning by the mewing Thai faggot boys in front of VT7 hollering out "Hello!" to any passing farang faggot cruising Dong Tan Beach? If there is one good thing, the smug sh*ts who have bought into the VT7 artists impression and are no doubt looking forward to the panoramic ocean views, are going to get a whole lot more besides...specially those at the front.
The guy left sitting high and dry when the dust settles is the expert witness. The same guy who perjured himself in court for materialistic gain. View talay will drop him like a bag of shite. This guy knows he has single handedly wrecked the lives of thousands of people in Pattaya/Jomtien who invested their life savings in what they thought was secure retirement sea views. Now that will all dissapear for them, that guy will spend the rest of his days looking over his shoulder. He will know what he is responsible for.
Jesus (is that your name? You are Italian NO?)Why are you surprised that faggot boys are plying their trade by the beach? Fast food is sold everywhere in Thailand. I expect there will be ice cream sales during the day and many other Thai delicacies all day long.
Good luck to them.
FAGGOT: definition: Brit, Austral & NZ a ball of chopped liver bound with herbs and bread
Jesus! Was anyone else kept awake early hours this morning by the mewing Thai faggot boys in front of VT7 hollering out "Hello!" to any passing farang faggot cruising Dong Tan Beach? If there is one good thing, the smug sh*ts who have bought into the VT7 artists impression and are no doubt looking forward to the panoramic ocean views, are going to get a whole lot more besides...specially those at the front.
I'm in the front but should be ok on the 19th floor. Get over it
Yes, a legal new condo building with beautiful sea views. A place where JCC owners can buy "real" ocean front property too.
Oh yes... he and his family will get to feel the pressure. All those decent, law abiding people out there ,whose lives now stand to be ruined by his lies. What goes round comes round. Do you think those decent people who will have their lives ruined will leave it at that?
For any sore losers, just agree with the Thai court ruling. Your wishful thinking didn’t come true and nobody cares what you think. Your dirty tactics didn’t work and you cannot bully Thai court. Leave some Russian who bought in this building in peace. If you don’t agree with the ruling and want some compensation come to Russia. We will compensate you. Just buy one way ticket. We know how to deal with people. The first to go is StopVT7. It will be the worning. It always make me smile seeing chicken want to do something. Go and cry to your 2 cent whore.
all you do is point out where the corruption lies. The expert witness and his family know what he has done. So do all the decent law abiding citizens whose entire lives now stand to be ruined. He took the money. The whole episode stinks. Everybody bar a vested interest knows the situation here. Fact, he and his family have to live with it now, that is until the pressure gets to him, as it will. Independant, Bangkok based?? deluded. View talay will now drop him like a bag of turds, really left holding the bag. He 'll get to feel it , wherever he runs.
I want to know how, in a so called democracy , one man alone can determine the interpretation of the law?
I also want to know why the country's sac (more like sic?), has not instigated proper challenge to this one guy. I also wonder why the King is not publicly asking the same questions. After all he set up this sac (sic?) .
I want to know how, in a so called democracy , one man alone can determine the interpretation of the law?
I also want to know why the country's sac (more like sic?), has not instigated proper challenge to this one guy. I also wonder why the King is not publicly asking the same questions. After all he set up this sac (sic?) .
23 November, 2008
Here is a full and comprehensive answer to your questions. Because THIS IS THAILAND
Curious that VT 5C , (which equally breached the 200 m law) did not attract any comments by those concerned for the beach / environment. Should that be pulled down as well?
That's not quite the case because the neigbhoring homeowner's associations did voice their objections but were told that VT5-C was legal by City authorities. They never made a legal challenge like the JCC homeowners did. Look at all the money they saved.
"Curious that VT 5C , (which equally breached the 200 m law) did not attract any comments by those concerned for the beach / environment. Should that be pulled down "
You got it in one there,...breached the 200m law.
But the thai court wont allow challenge to one person who says otherwise.corrupt.
The idiot StopVT7 was in the airport, trying to convince yellow people to vote for him, not to lose his sea view. He tried to convince them that, all the governments watching his case. What the loser, I wouldn’t be surprised if he milks JCC for more money.
The idiot StopVT7 was in the airport, trying to convince yellow people to vote for him, not to lose his sea view. He tried to convince them that, all the governments watching his case. What the loser, I wouldn’t be surprised if he milks JCC for more money.
The votes should be to take corruption out of the courts.
The court has ruled so except that. StopVT7 has got his holiday from JCC money and he has got unlimited supplied of money from JCC complex. Even if he wishes to buy dictionary or send the present to his friends or buy the car, he can do it. He has done a lot for the people so just back off. The new car and apartment in VT7 don’t mean nothing.
Jesus! Was anyone else kept awake early hours this morning by the mewing Thai faggot boys in front of VT7 hollering out "Hello!" to any passing farang faggot cruising Dong Tan Beach? If there is one good thing, the smug sh*ts who have bought into the VT7 artists impression and are no doubt looking forward to the panoramic ocean views, are going to get a whole lot more besides...specially those at the front. One good thing about it is that rubbish people like oneMikeinBangkok will move out and decent people can leave there, who can tolerate a bit of noice. Fuck you Mike, I thought you already moved out. Your live savings of $5000 got a bit of biting lately. Soon you gonna be one of them.
I think people like Agulura should be jailed for live. He plays with boys and takes money from Stopvt7.He offered me money but I turned him down. He soon change his name but I watch him. He is a dead meat. How you gonna be called Mike.
The last I hear StopVT7 was around the yellow people handling out 100 Baths bills for anybody, who cares to listen to his case. He also had his deputy Mike aka Agelguru follow him. He lives on the 5th floor in JCC complex. All the money comes from the JCC condo. I think this toxic due can be stopped. Mike changes his name every week, but he is well known crook.
What a bunch of vicious twits on this site. What's the matter? Too much sun, sea, hospitality for you to handle? Nothing to do but crouch in your studios & compose hate mail? Sorry for you and for us all.
Neither rule 8 or rule 9 were intented to preserve views. They were intended to limit intense development in popular coastal areas. VT 7's concerns were only ever about views, and the court really couldn't give flying f*ck about that.
Same the world over. You can buy land, you can buy the right to occupy property, you can buy mineral rights under, and air space over... but you can only enjoy views. No one has ownership rights, so what's the point winging to the courts? In Australia they've now got the concept of "view sharing" to make the point. No one has a monopoly on views.
Why didn't JCC condo owners insure against protecting their views by buying the plot of land in front when they had the opportunity to do so? VT did what any business would do and bought a prime piece of land.
Yes, in a few American cities views are afforded some protection and zoning boards will listen but this is not America thank God. The JCC owners listened to their developer and the lying realtors who sold them a bad bill of goods. Remember it was the JCC developer that sold the land.
That’s the most responsible answer I hear for the while. I might be a loonie, but these motherfuckers don’t understand that. The view is not protected and nobody cares about it. Only the stupid motherfucker like stopvt7 cannot understand it. His days are counted anyway. So the stupid oneMikeinBangkok. I move the earth to get these stupid people out of Thailand. One way or another.
In western countries we think the courts are there to correct injustices and make wise decisions, create case law and precedence. In Thailand they are there to uphold the LAW and will only consider matters of fact "at law". Views dont come into it... and if VT7 has a legally issued building permit ..... there's really nothing to deabte.
113 comments:
What a cop-out,an abdication of responsibility.
They bottled it.
Thai Rak Thai.
What did you expect?
Sad, and the wrong decision. But predictable I suppose. Bad luck. Not only for you, but for many people with a plot of land in front of their home near the sea.
Interesting that Ocean 1 seems to have got away with stealing millions in investors' deposits, while VT7 is given a carte blanche to continue building an illegal structure!
Honestly, who in their right mind would ever invest an honest penny in Thailand?
"Honestly, who in their right mind would ever invest an honest penny in Thailand?"
Quite on the contrary. Now people can invest with confidence knowing that when the City of Pattaya issues a construction permit and a project complies with environmental review regulations it can go forward. This should help the condo market in these down time (excluding of course JCC).
The question now is whether VT will sue JCC to recoup lost money?
It will be interesting to read the English translation of this decision.
My understanding is that because the case was filed in Administrative Court, the plaintiffs are not liable for countersuit.
Is this actually a final decision on the case?
It seems to me the SAC was asked to either re-impose the injunction or decide what the law was.
All it looks to have done is decided to do nothing, and let Rayong get on with it.
So the injunction remains lifted, but has Rayong now got to give its final decision,legal or illegal?.
Following this,is it then back to SAC for appeal?
I am troubled if the SAC has put the expert witness on an untouchable pedestal.
It goes back to the Rayong Court pending final verdict but it is clear what that verdict will be pending something unforeseen. The question is will stopVT7 appeal that decision now knowing this SC decision?
Perhaps we need our own expert witness to put in front of the Rayong court?
"Perhaps we need our own expert witness to put in front of the Rayong court?"
Dah. Little bit late now.
But isn,t that the issue here.
Why are both Rayong and SAC only interested in dealing with this one expert witness?
What about the views of all the other interested parties,where is the democracy being demonstrated in the courts view that only this guys opinion matters.Where are the checks and balances being undertaken.
This isn't democratic its akin to dictatorship.
Many so called experts have caused great problems for innocent people in courts, only to be exposed as frauds in later years, after the damage has been done.
I cannot see why the courts have invested everything in this one guy, and I am sure National Thai figures,and International figures cannot either.
You missed the point. StopVT7 had the chance to present their own witnesses to strengthen their case but didn't. The expert witness only repeated what was in the Court ordered survey and report. All the evidence is now in the hands of the Court.
My understanding is that the latest admin court ruling relates to a claim that city hall erroneously issued the building permit under the(old)clause 8 rule instead of the (new) clause 9 rule. Even if City Hall had been found in error VT7 (now up to 24 floors) would argue that it acted in good faith and that it would be unreasonable to now revoke the permit. What-ever now happens, it ain'tcoming down!
"Interesting that Ocean 1 seems to have got away with stealing millions in investors' deposits"
All deposits paid are into a trust account and in the event of the project being cancelled (which it's not at this point in time) have to be returned to investors.
"....relates to a claim that city hall erroneously issued the building permit under the(old)clause 8 rule instead of the (new) clause 9 rule...."
That is not correct, but you are correct that VT7 is not coming down.
The original claim was that City Hall issued the permit erroneously. (The Rayong court added VT7s name afterwards)Any way you cut it, VT7 can easily claim it acted in good faith within this context.
Which is in fact what they've been claiming all along.
now to start a new law suit against JCC developer? These people are the real bustards.
I agree , but what's the point.
Another developer in the courts.
You've seen where the court's allegiance is..with the developer!
The Supreme Court of Administrative decision was make on procedure issue of the court rules.
"The Supreme Court of Administrative decision was make on procedure issue of the court rules."
Please explain.
Presumably this site is awaiting the English translation of the Supreme court reading before providing us with additional information. But WHY?
Surely you have been in consultation w/ the lawyer and must have some idea of options - if any - and what is planned for the future.
Those of us who have supported you financially as well as morally deserve to be kept informed. Please provide us with your most current information. At the very least, I think we ought to know whether or not this case is over.
As a famous baseball philosopher once said "it ain't over till its over". The Rayong Court has not given it's final decision and if unfavorable it can always be appealed.
Or, as we say "It ain't over till the fat lady sings", and I don't hear her clearing her throat right now.
I can see a very Thai solution coming. VT7 which must be very close to topping out will be built and completed. The Thai court will rule that 200 meters from the mean sea level is correct, BUT will not apply to currently excisting structures, and will be enforced from a certain date forward.
Comments?
"The Thai court will rule that 200 meters from the mean sea level is correct, BUT will not apply to currently excisting structures, and will be enforced from a certain date forward."
Why would they do that when they (Rayond Court and SC) have already permitted to build 100 meters from MSL? To grandfather VT7 would be like a slap in the face. They could not let VT7 go forward if they rule 200 meters from MSL because the building would be illegal. Do you really think they will reverse themselves and go against the Bangkok Dept of Engineering report?
"The Thai court will rule that 200 meters from the mean sea level is correct, BUT will not apply to currently excisting structures, and will be enforced from a certain date forward."
This is probably the most likely possibility in the circs.
Pretty foolish, methinks, to spend more time & money on lawyers, etc. waiting for the Rayong result we all know is coming. They have done everything possible - apart from an actual judgement - to make it clear they have no intention of reversing VT7.And then an appeal with the hope of tearing down VT7's 27-storey bldg?? There is a time to admit defeat & this seems like one of those. Move on.
"The Thai court will rule that 200 meters from the mean sea level is correct, BUT will not apply to currently excisting structures, and will be enforced from a certain date forward."
This is probably the most likely possibility in the circs.
Pretty foolish, methinks, to spend more time & money on lawyers, etc. waiting for the Rayong result we all know is coming. They have done everything possible - apart from an actual judgement - to make it clear they have no intention of reversing VT7.And then an appeal with the hope of tearing down VT7's 27-storey bldg?? There is a time to admit defeat & this seems like one of those. Move on.
Well.... as predicted... you lost.
You can finally put "I like this little man, he makes me laugh" to rest.
The only thing you reached for me is that I just sold my 3 units in VT7 with a nice profit. I got sick from all the waiting and your nonsense fight. I bought a nice house in the mountains now, far away from you and VT7.
The dubious thai judges and court witnesses must be very pleased for you.
Always remember... , all the decent hardworking Thai's and farangs this so called Thai legal system has trampled all over to get you your house in the mountains.
Another saying...what goes around comes around...I hope quickly for your sort.
Why the decision of the supreme court is kept a secret for the JCC co-owners? Everytime you published "we won" . Now it's clear that you lost everything and you took the money of the co-owners for your hobby. So it would be fair if you informed them that you spoiled their money and lost everything!!
There had better damned well be a detailed account of your activities to the JCC owners, and it better be good. The cats have exited the bag, so let's not have anymore of this "confidentiality" crap.
And lets also know who has taken the view talay money in this sordid , tainted court case.
The Thai chief justice really needs to be asking himself just what was the purpose in setting up this so called independent Supreme administrative court, whose job was to root out corruption, not sleep with it.
The message has gone out loud and clear to the international comunity,"stay clear of thailand or you'll get shafted good-style "
Any news out there on the status of the Regatta in front of Jomtien Condotel? I beleive that this dev't was even pushing the limits within 100m by at least a few metres.
I still believe that a 200m setback was still the true intent of issue 9 but that the view thalay developers hold too much clout to be ruled against.
cheers
"The message has gone out loud and clear to the international comunity,"stay clear of thailand or you'll get shafted good-style"
BS. The real message sent is that all buyers (both Thai and international) can have confidence that when a project passes all regulatory hurdles and is granted a building permit that the project can go forward as promised.
"And lets also know who has taken the view talay money in this sordid , tainted court case.
The Thai chief justice really needs to be asking himself just what was the purpose in setting up this so called independent Supreme administrative court, whose job was to root out corruption, not sleep with it."
Sore loser. Unsupported allegations and character assassination.
BS. The real message sent is that all buyers (both Thai and international) can have confidence that when a project passes all regulatory hurdles and is granted a building permit that the project can go forward as promised.
Oh yeh...
but what about all the legal hurdles, how does it get past them ?
and promises to who... the developer?, certainly not JCC residents.
Loud and clear !!
Sore loser. Unsupported allegations and character assassination
Ha Ha... naive
Hope you get yours soon.
You have to admit, this case really does leave a smell.
The smell of roses.
What it has demonstrated is that a group of self centred,egotistical blowhard newcomers; can not exploit the legal system to bully and stop a legitimate, fully legal and approved building project.
StopVT7 and supporters will have little sympathy from the population in general when their victims seek just retribution.
As has been said, many times, Thailand is a land of laws. Those laws include the concept of monetry damages.
So Tammi after so many times leaking StopV.7 arse, you got nothing out of it. He didn’t even fuck you. He got money from JCC and went for holiday. He really fucked you up. Some suckers never learn. Suggest got together with another sucker MikeonetimeinBangok and make sucker club. You are all both old and stupid. Some people never learn. You might as well sell your stupid arse on the beach road for 500 bahts. Consider it expensive. You have never learn till now so stay stupid. And for your wish for people losing money I hope you will soon die and your kids and your family will die soon.
well what a load of trash many of the pro view talay people are... real low trash... or maybe it is just one or two mental retards writing the same old hate.
obviously they wouldnt appreciate a real beach scene with colour anyway.
a sad human that worships a concrete box shat out by a self worshiping developer..
yes it is obvious,,, to build all those shitty ugly stinking boxes view talay must be very very wealthy...
and that is why the insults theu build next to the sea can be built...
Karma does often happen so lets just hope it does come view talays way soon
The smell of roses.
What it has demonstrated is that a group of self centred,egotistical blowhard newcomers; can not exploit the legal system to bully and stop a legitimate, fully legal and approved building project.
LOL..
What it has demonstrated to the international comunity is that Thailand is more bent and corrupt today than it ever was.
So Tammi after so many times leaking StopV.7
Are you the best that the vt investors can put up here.
We notice you have to hide behind anonimity to release your tirade.
You havn't the guts to put your name to it, and we don't mean your nick!!
Chicken... Chicken...Chicken..
say no more.
Obviously it hurts you. I give you a clue. I am a girl sucking a dick from N.Y.player. I am pushing double 00 with 5 in front. Work it out you stupid motherfuckers. I am glad that motherfucker lost. In Brooklyn he would be dead. You think I can lose all of that, sorry that motherfucker is just a nuisance. It can be easily liquidated.
have to say it again...
well what a load of trash many of the pro view talay people are... real low trash... or maybe it is just one or two mental retards writing the same old hate.
obviously they wouldnt appreciate a real beach scene with colour anyway.
a sad human that worships a concrete box shat out by a self worshiping developer
view talay developer is probably pissed with stop vt7 as he may have chipped into their big profits.
profits that they makes from idiots
well the idiots might lose something now that the economy of things is goinng down down down....
plop!
Just put in your stupid head that buildings can be build. All the round the world is happening. And I have nothing against for stopVt.7 to buy dictionary. He took all the money for everything else. Even for his holliday.All money lost.What that dick head has had to say.I don’t’ want to pay for his hoppy.
Just stop stumbling cause u know you lost. You nothing for me, fuck you and your family.
I do magic for you to die. Fuck you Tammi
Who is Tammi and what did she do to deserve the verbal abuse from one poster?
Tammi is the guy who licked the arse of stopV7.Thet both lost big time. They wanted people to lose money. Now I hope they lose big time. I just wish coma come back to them and they pay for that. So Tammi gonna paid for that and stopVT7 gonna be kicked out of Thailand. And that’s when fat lady gonna stop singing,
it looks like mr/ mrs view talay are posting here and are not happy that vt7 cost them some of the suckers cash from the poor suckers who bought into their pathetic buildings.
may the economic crashes of the world rain down on the party
I don't see what the idiot is making all the fuss about, Rayong have still to deliver.
The SAC have quite correctly shoved it back to Rayong with the message ..you got us into this mess so you get us out of it.
Thai reputation is on the line with these Rayong "judges".
Everybody worldwide knows its a stitch up, Rayong introduced the expert witness and the SAC won't go near him. Stinky.
Come on Rayong judges, keep whatever credibility you have left.
Tasteless, I'm guessing native Thai-speaking person who uses "mother-fucker" every 3rd word and issues death threats to adversaries and their FAMILIES (??): Someone very like you was recently booted off TVforum. What happened? Fingers got burned when you batted for stopvt7?
Lost your point there, sounds to me like the nerd is a vt7 investor, not a stopvt supporter?
As a passive observer to all of this, here is my "6 peneth" of thoughts. In western society the balance of power has switched from those with capital, towards those minority groups who scream the loudest (anti development, greenies, environmentalists & self interest groups.) In asian culture that hasn't yet happened and the law will continue to support developers over "luddites." You also have to remember that the 200 metre rule was introduced post-sunami and is primarily targetted at areas that could again be devastated. It has nothing to do with sustainable development or preserving beaches per say. Rayong / Pattaya is not in the high sunami risk category and the 200 metre rule is seen as largely academic. Therefore VT 7 will be completed and the 200 m rule will continue to be interpreted in Rayong with pragmatic thai flexibility. Farangs who try to oppose the collective thai will, will continue to be given short shrift. Stop VT7 never stood a chance of success and futher protestations are, in my humble view, doomed.(I'm posting anonymous.... call me Biggles.)
"You also have to remember that the 200 metre rule was introduced post-sunami and is primarily targetted at areas that could again be devastated. It has nothing to do with sustainable development or preserving beaches per say."
The 200 metre rule in Pattaya was introduced with the adoption of Issue 9 over 20 years ago and has nothing to do with a sunami. Issue 9 is an Environmental Law to protect Thailand's shoreline. The Court simply had to decide the measuring point for the 200 metres. StopVt7 said measure from the MSL and the City of Pattaya said measure from Construction Control Line as shown on the map. The Courts after ordering a survey and report said the City of Pattaya was correct.
because i believe that a beach environment is for all society, that water quality should be best retained for marine life and human pleasure... i would be a greeenie, ludite...
you are a selfish dickhead then.
i hope you like to eat you seafood fool of toxins... wanker
as for the 200m rule and tsunami explanation, you just revealed how uneducated you are.
The 200 metre rule in Pattaya was introduced with the adoption of Issue 9 over 20 years ago and has nothing to do with a sunami. Issue 9 is an Environmental Law to protect Thailand's shoreline. The Court simply had to decide the measuring point for the 200 metres.
That's quite correct.
But for some reason the court's are not enforcing it in the manner it was introduced ie an environmental law.
The courts current view makes issue 9 more onerous and harmful to the environment than its predecessor issue 8.
This begs 2 questions,
1. Was issue 9 really introduced to be worse for the environment than issue 8??
2.what is going on in the legal process for the court to adopt this backward looking opinion??
I think we all know the only rational answer to these questions $$$
I think that's a great point about Mr/Mrs view talay posting on here.
Have Mr/Mrs view talay got the guts to come on here and explain their case??
Have they got the guts to come on here and defend the situation??
Have they got the guts to come on here and face some public scrutiny about what they are responsible for??
And what about the jokers in city hall, who are they accountable to??
or are they just little chickens hiding behind a dubious legal system??
Lost your point there, sounds to me like the nerd is a vt7 investor, not a stopvt supporter?
04 November, 2008
VT7 won - why would one of them write such crap? No, the only ones writing out of control during this case have been stopvt7.Check out TVforum back pages. (one of the things that has made it so hard to support these people.)This appears to be an internal dog-fight.
VT7 won - why would one of them write such crap? No, the only ones writing out of control during this case have been stopvt7.Check out TVforum back pages. (one of the things that has made it so hard to support these people.)This appears to be an internal dog-fight
I can see your reasoning but I still think its an investor who came close to getting called in.
The TVforum is also full of vitriolic personal attacks and character assassinations of the stop vt group.
Some would see your view as an attempt to divide the opposition.
Is this the End?
Is this the End? Or will the translation be soon on this blog.
Why it take so long ? VT send letter to all the buyers to pay their payments. Thus this means that they winn.
"Thus this means that they winn."
No, this means the legal costs must be paid, win or lose.
And the legal cost gona be paid by JC co-owners. They that ones who suffer from the action from that bully stopVT7. He got kicked out of every forum as he cannot confirm to any standard. He is a bully and an idiot. And he hired another idiot OneMikeinBangkok, who has got his blog site to fight his case. They are both idiots and should be kicked out of Thailand. My reliable sources tell me that StopVT7 days are counted. He is a dead meat. Pardon me he still can get money from co-owners for his holiday.
And on personal notice, never deal with OneMikeinBangkok, alias Black Pudding and Agelguru, they both took money from co-owners of JCC and split it together. They are both crooks but stopVT7 got the chunk of that. I just hope when you find him he has his dictionary with him. Or you have to call Tammi to leak his arse for him.
And for you Agelguru , small time crook, leave some space for the comment. And leave your mouth open for 2 dicks coming in. What you did for the children. Another dick head.
Its the same the whole world over, it takes a bigger one to know one !!!
Why this translation take so long, Why there is no answer wheter this is the final desicion or not?
It seems to me that the game is over and that they have done it the Thai way. Foreigner will never understand the Thai way.
Neither will all the Thai Nationals who live in JCC and all the other buildings which now stand to have a high rise built directly in front of them.
Corruption is alive and thriving in Thailand, time to turn the light off.
any signs of a view thalay crash yet? Defaulting customers, freezing of funds, building overkill, market flood etc.... must be very extended.
"any signs of a view thalay crash yet? Defaulting customers, freezing of funds, building overkill, market flood etc.... must be very extended."
Please try posting in logical, coherent sentences. Sounds like wishful thinking by a sore loser.
Logical or not I can see the above point. It is an increasingly tough investment and business environment out there.
Big developers are prone to busts in such business conditions and VT seem to have been expanding their rubbish beyond a standard scale.
Why the translation of the decision of the Supreme Court is still not available?
"Big developers are prone to busts in such business conditions and VT seem to have been expanding their rubbish beyond a standard scale."
Yes, there are always big risks for a developer and justly so in light of these rough economic times. VT has sold enough units already to make a profit but it the flippers who are now left holding the bag and must finalize their contract payments or return the unit(s) to VT. Poor VT.
Jesus! Was anyone else kept awake early hours this morning by the mewing Thai faggot boys in front of VT7 hollering out "Hello!" to any passing farang faggot cruising Dong Tan Beach? If there is one good thing, the smug sh*ts who have bought into the VT7 artists impression and are no doubt looking forward to the panoramic ocean views, are going to get a whole lot more besides...specially those at the front.
The guy left sitting high and dry when the dust settles is the expert witness.
The same guy who perjured himself in court for materialistic gain.
View talay will drop him like a bag of shite.
This guy knows he has single handedly wrecked the lives of thousands of people in Pattaya/Jomtien who invested their life savings in what they thought was secure retirement sea views.
Now that will all dissapear for them, that guy will spend the rest of his days looking over his shoulder.
He will know what he is responsible for.
Jesus (is that your name? You are Italian NO?)Why are you surprised that faggot boys are plying their trade by the beach? Fast food is sold everywhere in Thailand.
I expect there will be ice cream sales during the day and many other Thai delicacies all day long.
Good luck to them.
FAGGOT: definition: Brit, Austral & NZ a ball of chopped liver bound with herbs and bread
"He will know what he is responsible for."
Yes, a legal new condo building with beautiful sea views. A place where JCC owners can buy "real" ocean front property too.
Jesus! Was anyone else kept awake early hours this morning by the mewing Thai faggot boys in front of VT7 hollering out "Hello!" to any passing farang faggot cruising Dong Tan Beach? If there is one good thing, the smug sh*ts who have bought into the VT7 artists impression and are no doubt looking forward to the panoramic ocean views, are going to get a whole lot more besides...specially those at the front.
I'm in the front but should be ok on the 19th floor. Get over it
"He will know what he is responsible for."
Yes, a legal new condo building with beautiful sea views. A place where JCC owners can buy "real" ocean front property too.
Oh yes... he and his family will get to feel the pressure.
All those decent, law abiding people out there ,whose lives now stand to be ruined by his lies.
What goes round comes round.
Do you think those decent people who will have their lives ruined will leave it at that?
I have heard that the JCC residents are buying a couple of units in vt7 with a view to some extended ongoing building works during the day?
I hope its true.
Anyway, who is going to insure vt7 on the basis of that corruption?
For any sore losers, just agree with the Thai court ruling.
Your wishful thinking didn’t come true and nobody cares what you think.
Your dirty tactics didn’t work and you cannot bully Thai court.
Leave some Russian who bought in this building in peace. If you don’t agree with the ruling and want some compensation come to Russia. We will compensate you. Just buy one way ticket. We know how to deal with people. The first to go is StopVT7. It will be the worning.
It always make me smile seeing chicken want to do something. Go and cry to your 2 cent whore.
"All those decent, law abiding people out there ,whose lives now stand to be ruined by his lies."
His lies? Let me understand:
1. The independent surveyors that made 3 measurements over the course of a year lied.
2. The independent Bangkok Department of Engineering lied in their report.
3. The witness then lied about the report and must have falsified the map.
All very unlikely. Just accept the facts. But, who did lie to the JCC homeowners was the original builder of JCC.
all you do is point out where the corruption lies.
The expert witness and his family know what he has done.
So do all the decent law abiding citizens whose entire lives now stand to be ruined.
He took the money.
The whole episode stinks.
Everybody bar a vested interest knows the situation here.
Fact, he and his family have to live with it now, that is until the pressure gets to him, as it will.
Independant, Bangkok based?? deluded.
View talay will now drop him like a bag of turds, really left holding the bag.
He 'll get to feel it , wherever he runs.
Whatever drugs the above poster is taking I want some!!!
Whatever drugs the above poster is taking I want some!!!
Which poster sado,
There are 85 above your post!!.
Clearly your on them already.
Another high calibre vt7 investor, ha ha
I want to know how, in a so called democracy , one man alone can determine the interpretation of the law?
I also want to know why the country's sac (more like sic?), has not instigated proper challenge to this one guy.
I also wonder why the King is not publicly asking the same questions.
After all he set up this sac (sic?) .
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I want to know how, in a so called democracy , one man alone can determine the interpretation of the law?
I also want to know why the country's sac (more like sic?), has not instigated proper challenge to this one guy.
I also wonder why the King is not publicly asking the same questions.
After all he set up this sac (sic?) .
23 November, 2008
Here is a full and comprehensive answer to your questions. Because THIS IS THAILAND
Here is a full and comprehensive answer to your questions. Because THIS IS THAILAND
It appears so, however more accurately..THIS IS CORRUPT THAILAND.
And on the evidence..starts at the VERY top.
QED.
Curious that VT 5C , (which equally breached the 200 m law) did not attract any comments by those concerned for the beach / environment. Should that be pulled down as well?
That's not quite the case because the neigbhoring homeowner's associations did voice their objections but were told that VT5-C was legal by City authorities. They never made a legal challenge like the JCC homeowners did. Look at all the money they saved.
Where is stopVT7? Wasn't he able to get back in to the country with the closure of the airports?
"Curious that VT 5C , (which equally breached the 200 m law) did not attract any comments by those concerned for the beach / environment. Should that be pulled down "
You got it in one there,...breached the 200m law.
But the thai court wont allow challenge to one person who says otherwise.corrupt.
The idiot StopVT7 was in the airport, trying to convince yellow people to vote for him, not to lose his sea view. He tried to convince them that, all the governments watching his case. What the loser, I wouldn’t be surprised if he milks JCC for more money.
The idiot StopVT7 was in the airport, trying to convince yellow people to vote for him, not to lose his sea view. He tried to convince them that, all the governments watching his case. What the loser, I wouldn’t be surprised if he milks JCC for more money.
The votes should be to take corruption out of the courts.
Has there been any further developments with this issue since the last supreme court decision.
The court has ruled so except that. StopVT7 has got his holiday from JCC money and he has got unlimited supplied of money from JCC complex. Even if he wishes to buy dictionary or send the present to his friends or buy the car, he can do it. He has done a lot for the people so just back off. The new car and apartment in VT7 don’t mean nothing.
Jesus! Was anyone else kept awake early hours this morning by the mewing Thai faggot boys in front of VT7 hollering out "Hello!" to any passing farang faggot cruising Dong Tan Beach? If there is one good thing, the smug sh*ts who have bought into the VT7 artists impression and are no doubt looking forward to the panoramic ocean views, are going to get a whole lot more besides...specially those at the front.
One good thing about it is that rubbish people like oneMikeinBangkok will move out and decent people can leave there, who can tolerate a bit of noice. Fuck you Mike, I thought you already moved out. Your live savings of $5000 got a bit of biting lately. Soon you gonna be one of them.
I think people like Agulura should be jailed for live. He plays with boys and takes money from Stopvt7.He offered me money but I turned him down. He soon change his name but I watch him. He is a dead meat. How you gonna be called Mike.
Are there any sensible people around here who know what the latest position is with the case after the last sc ruling ?
Seem to be a lot of loonies though.
The last I hear StopVT7 was around the yellow people handling out 100 Baths bills for anybody, who cares to listen to his case. He also had his deputy Mike aka Agelguru follow him. He lives on the 5th floor in JCC complex. All the money comes from the JCC condo. I think this toxic due can be stopped. Mike changes his name every week, but he is well known crook.
The guy asked for response from sensible people, not the loonies,
What a bunch of vicious twits on this site. What's the matter? Too much sun, sea, hospitality for you to handle? Nothing to do but crouch in your studios & compose hate mail? Sorry for you and for us all.
OMG
The loonies have taken over the asylum
.... and they wonder why they lost the case !
Looks like anyone with a beach front condo stands to lose.
Neither rule 8 or rule 9 were intented to preserve views. They were intended to limit intense development in popular coastal areas. VT 7's concerns were only ever about views, and the court really couldn't give flying f*ck about that.
Same the world over. You can buy land, you can buy the right to occupy property, you can buy mineral rights under, and air space over... but you can only enjoy views. No one has ownership rights, so what's the point winging to the courts? In Australia they've now got the concept of "view sharing" to make the point. No one has a monopoly on views.
Why didn't JCC condo owners insure against protecting their views by buying the plot of land in front when they had the opportunity to do so?
VT did what any business would do and bought a prime piece of land.
Yes, in a few American cities views are afforded some protection and zoning boards will listen but this is not America thank God. The JCC owners listened to their developer and the lying realtors who sold them a bad bill of goods. Remember it was the JCC developer that sold the land.
That’s the most responsible answer I hear for the while. I might be a loonie, but these motherfuckers don’t understand that. The view is not protected and nobody cares about it. Only the stupid motherfucker like stopvt7 cannot understand it. His days are counted anyway. So the stupid oneMikeinBangkok. I move the earth to get these stupid people out of Thailand. One way or another.
In western countries we think the courts are there to correct injustices and make wise decisions, create case law and precedence. In Thailand they are there to uphold the LAW and will only consider matters of fact "at law". Views dont come into it... and if VT7 has a legally issued building permit ..... there's really nothing to deabte.
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