How could a Court Witness the Department of Civil Engineer and City Planning Bangkok rewrite the intent of Issue 9?
50 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I read above "Join the Stop VT7 Group", but how? What do you need? What does the group intend to do from here? Will you appeal? Are lawyers active still?
Think everybody knows what was happened to this case. Purely big "?????". One opion can change the law and make a big impact to the country, belive it or not. Is it that easy? We should make this case publicised.
If it happeneds to end this way, as a Thai I feel so sorry and have to apollogise. Hope that you will not think that all Thais are like that.
Comparing to Thai politic, you see any difference?
There's 2 sides to every argument, and what I'm hearing is sore losers complaining because they can't ramrod their subjective view of circumstances down everyone elses throats. Just because the court didn't side with StopVT7...doesn't mean they are wrong! I predict a countersuit will be waged near term to financially ruin those who started this rabble in the first place. Be careful the fights you pick...you may lose much more than a petty 'loss of ocean viewing'...
It is the purpose of the court to rule on the matter before it. The judge is no expert in these situations and can only rely on the validity of the various expert opinions presented. So in this case the judge was swayed by the expert witness. Knowing what you know now,if you were the appeal judge,would you be?
In a democratic country it is the right of any individual or group,to challenge for justice;it is then reliant on a fair and just legal system to deliver it. Remember,someday we all may have to rely on it.
And what about the judgement on the "First Prosecuted Party" - City Hall, isn't it? The way I got it, Stop VT didn't start their case against View Talay, they put their case against City Hall for improperly giving permission for VT construction. The administrative court itself added VT as "Second Prosecuted Party".
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. The worst losers are the ones who keep stating they were right, while everybody know they are wrong.
They can't be convinced and will lose their face, money and more.
Get over it Richard, you lost and will keep losing if you continue. This is not what you want. Count your blessings and live with the facts, is all I can advice.
You tried to beat the unbeatable, you didn't overcome.
Get in quick and buy now in VT7. Wonderful sea views and a modern building. The front units will never be built out. Every other available seaview site will be developed just as surely as the tide comes in. Its a good verdict for everyone apart from a few NIMBYS.
The trouble with the view talays is that they keep coming. Just when you thought it was safe to enter the water Jaws appears. As you will see the court judgement stated vt7 was 205m from the imaginary construction control line.When the adjoining view talays come each side of vt7 they will be 5 m closer to the sea. What about your vt7 sea views then!. BUT,view talay wouldn't pull a trick like that on you ,would they.....
Has there been any newspaper analysis of the court case? It would be very interesting to read an independent local Thai view of what has happened. If its been in Nation or Bangkok Post then I have missed it. I guess the local property papers will not report it in case a certain large advertiser is upset. Pattaya Mail and Today etc aren't in the news reporting business just local information/entertainment and advertising.
PLEASE NOTE: 2nd comment down "crooked as a dog's hind leg" is out of context - absolutely NOT directed at Stop VT7, but at VT empire and judicial system.
Buncha folk call JCC & Stop VT7 "sore losers" and would like to reduce the case to sour grapes over a sea view. I'm guessing these are the ones who bought or are planning to buy into VT7 and now feel quite smug. Guess that's just "human", but to urge others to rejoice and buy into ill-gotten gains crosses the line. If you examine the case and its history, you can't avoid the fact that VT7 has bullied and bought its way into being. Forget their disputed right to construct for the moment. They pushed through a faked up Environmental Impact Report and then refused to even abide by the extremely lenient regulations based on that report. Look at VT5's situation now. And you think the green space next door is gonna remain vacant?! Maybe buying into the "winning" side is just facing reality & making a profit - but have SOME integrity: Don't call it Right and Just. And - guess it's only human for me to shed no tears when you who buy in find yourselves shafted and realize what you've supported.
Building and developing desirable sites will never stop.The same reasons that brought us here will continue to attract other people. Green spaces are sites waiting to be developed. Just because someone buys a particular unit doesn't mean that everything will stop to protect their view. Its just a matter of time until all available land is developed. The beachside location is too good to leave undeveloped. If you want sea views then you have to buy where you cannot be built out or buy the land in front yourself.
Well, anyone can see this is a topic of interest, curiosity and debate. What we need more than anything is INFORMATION. So,"StopVT7", PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW. We'd all like to know whether this case is going to be pursued further & whatever other news you can safely divulge. (Pretty hard to support something which may be lying dead in the water!)
My comment was intended to point out that VT gives not a damn about its own investors, let alone neighbours or the community. They are arrogant, lawless and would joyfully pour their concrete shake'n'bake slum buildings over every inch of Pattaya.
Yes, Dongtan Beach will fast become View Talay Alley.It will be the biggest building site in Pattaya-Jomtien. Condo owners and beach users will be afflicted with continual construction noise for the next ten years,both from external new buildings and internal condo fitting out and conversion. And all based upon a flimsy court decision which the next Pattaya administration could seek to overturn at a whim.Who would buy into that? VT5 owners beware,keep your eyes on the Avalon Hotel,see how long that lasts!!.
You have to remember the Phoenix rose from the ashes. If it was me I wouldn't be saying anything either. To many vt goons around. I agree,this case has legs yet,far to important to rest on the nonsense presented up to now.
Majority of the VT7 supporters are a pathetic excuse for adults, their comments remind me more of schoolboy gangs whose footie team one a game.
The new definition of the construction line is definately suss and it was definately worth fighting the construction of an ugly mass of concrete so close to any beach any where.
Sure it is the way of the world, glad I wont be having children and grandchildren to inherit this trashed planet. Hope your grandkids love concrete and shopping malls.
Architectural beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But VT7 looks like a very attractive building to me. Much better than JCC which stuck out and up like two sore thumbs. VT7 and the other buildings scheduled will improve the area no end. As Jomtien develops, the quality of the buildings are also getting better and better. Just look at the new projects planned. Eventually many of the old eyesores will be re-developed but I think VT7 will have a long and popular life. Its an ideal beachside location for families and children. How is the site progressing....any more photos available?
Hmm.. Interesting. Seems to me like the expert witness is at odds with the supreme court's analysis here. I suspect a comprimise will be reached with view talay getting away with vt3 and 5,but the law being applied to vt7,and so restricted to 14m.
Before we rush to join in a further fight it would help if we had some facts and not conjecture and opinion. Who did the English language translation of the judgements for example? The court or the lawyers or who? Does it have any legal standing? This site has already had very misleading 'helpful' illustrations of the alleged building line. It is currently topped by a photo of the VT7 site taken with a lens which gives the impression that VT7 is virtually on the beach. As the court apparently has shown...VT7 is actually more than 100 meters behind the construction control line. A photo from the beach would give a completely different impression. Facts are needed not wishful thinking and manipulative spin.
vt7-case is in my opinion not only vt7-case, but it is the way how in thailand, money beats law. whats a tourist-destination without clean, nice beaches? whats an investment-opportunity without any protection for the investor? should not all the government-organisations issue only legal documents? please wake up! you are in thailand!
Corruption is the evil And brings the hatred and injustice. In Thailand is still the evil in power. It is a shame to see how bad it to Thailand yet. The police is in power and money. There must be an end to the type of people well. Thais hate corrupt police and judges That is the truth. Laws are simply suppressed. Please, love and truth. Not Corruption, hatred and injustice.
Agree that walls have ears. But, another side has to realise this as well. We are watching you !!! And, not only that, we are using our ears to listen.
Yes also in my experience of court proceedings that you have to be extremely careful about what you say outside the court. You can be in contempt of court and also your adversarie can twist what you say. So better to keep mum and keep your listening watching foe guessing.
I agree that it would be a courtesy, as well as an acknowledgement that this blogsite still has a point to it, to respond. There are uncontroversial things that could have been said long before now.
I agree. It's interesting for a while to bat around opinions & speculations based on logic, but this site's unresponsiveness is annoying and unnecessary. A simple "we'll let you know" would have been at least a sign of life. Like the man said "the hell with it".
The latest I have heard is that they will appeal the Rayong Admin Court's decision to allow work on VT7 to resume in the Supreme Administrative Court in Bangkok.
So there is still something going on apparently, though the lack of feedback here is very annoying.
No idea of the time frame involved, but VT7 is extending skywards at a rate of about 2 floors a month now, so it had better be soon or there will be no point.
It’s not enough to say you can help. You have to put your name on Pattaya City Hall blacked list. They are waiting for the people to get be kicked off, when they visa is due.
What I see that...VT7 has the permit back and continue the construction with the speed of light. The issue will be trickily (legally) dragged for a year or more. The case goes to a higher court. At the end the city (may be) guilty. But, who cares, VT7 finshed the project just right on the beach in front of you. Too late. What do you do?
50 comments:
I read above "Join the Stop VT7 Group", but how? What do you need?
What does the group intend to do from here? Will you appeal? Are lawyers active still?
Answer: by being crooked as a dog's hind leg.
Thats a grate photo StopVT7.will you do them regular like.
Are front ones still available? Grate locatun.
Think everybody knows what was happened to this case. Purely big "?????". One opion can change the law and make a big impact to the country, belive it or not. Is it that easy? We should make this case publicised.
If it happeneds to end this way, as a Thai I feel so sorry and have to apollogise. Hope that you will not think that all Thais are like that.
Comparing to Thai politic, you see any difference?
As a Thai citizen i feel proud, when I know that justice is served.
This will bring a lot of prosperity to the thai people.
There's 2 sides to every argument, and what I'm hearing is sore losers complaining because they can't ramrod their subjective view of circumstances down everyone elses throats. Just because the court didn't side with StopVT7...doesn't mean they are wrong! I predict a countersuit will be waged near term to financially ruin those who started this rabble in the first place. Be careful the fights you pick...you may lose much more than a petty 'loss of ocean viewing'...
It is the purpose of the court to rule on the matter before it.
The judge is no expert in these situations and can only rely on the validity of the various expert opinions presented.
So in this case the judge was swayed by the expert witness.
Knowing what you know now,if you were the appeal judge,would you be?
In a democratic country it is the right of any individual or group,to challenge for justice;it is then reliant on a fair and just legal system to deliver it.
Remember,someday we all may have to rely on it.
And what about the judgement on the "First Prosecuted Party" - City Hall, isn't it? The way I got it, Stop VT didn't start their case against View Talay, they put their case against City Hall for improperly giving permission for VT construction. The administrative court itself added VT as "Second Prosecuted Party".
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. The worst losers are the ones who keep stating they were right, while everybody know they are wrong.
They can't be convinced and will lose their face, money and more.
Get over it Richard, you lost and will keep losing if you continue. This is not what you want. Count your blessings and live with the facts, is all I can advice.
You tried to beat the unbeatable, you didn't overcome.
Get in quick and buy now in VT7. Wonderful sea views and a modern building.
The front units will never be built out.
Every other available seaview site will be developed just as surely as the tide comes in.
Its a good verdict for everyone apart from a few NIMBYS.
The trouble with the view talays is that they keep coming.
Just when you thought it was safe to enter the water Jaws appears.
As you will see the court judgement stated vt7 was 205m from the imaginary construction control line.When the adjoining view talays come each side of vt7 they will be 5 m closer to the sea.
What about your vt7 sea views then!.
BUT,view talay wouldn't pull a trick like that on you ,would they.....
Keep moving if 180 sea view is so important.
Looks like a fine, well designed building unlike other VTs.
Things are getting better...be joyful.
I suppose..., no, I am sure the court has been bought, that''s Thailand for you....
I bought in VT7 and am happy now, value will go up quickly now!!
Fortune favours the brave!
But will anybody be brave enough to buy it from you knowing the ongoing legality questions and associated baggage ?
No buyers....price drops!
From the table shown, an idoit can easily understand what was happened.
Has there been any newspaper analysis of the court case? It would be very interesting to read an independent local Thai view of what has happened.
If its been in Nation or Bangkok Post then I have missed it. I guess the local property papers will not report it in case a certain large advertiser is upset. Pattaya Mail and Today etc aren't in the news reporting business just local information/entertainment and advertising.
PLEASE NOTE:
2nd comment down "crooked as a dog's hind leg" is out of context - absolutely NOT directed at Stop VT7, but at VT empire and judicial system.
Buncha folk call JCC & Stop VT7 "sore losers" and would like to reduce the case to sour grapes over a sea view. I'm guessing these are the ones who bought or are planning to buy into VT7 and now feel quite smug. Guess that's just "human", but to urge others to rejoice and buy into ill-gotten gains crosses the line.
If you examine the case and its history, you can't avoid the fact that VT7 has bullied and bought its way into being. Forget their disputed right to construct for the moment. They pushed through a faked up Environmental Impact Report and then refused to even abide by the extremely lenient regulations based on that report.
Look at VT5's situation now. And you think the green space next door is gonna remain vacant?! Maybe buying into the "winning" side is just facing reality & making a profit - but have SOME integrity: Don't call it Right and Just. And - guess it's only human for me to shed no tears when you who buy in find yourselves shafted and realize what you've supported.
Building and developing desirable sites will never stop.The same reasons that brought us here will continue to attract other people.
Green spaces are sites waiting to be developed.
Just because someone buys a particular unit doesn't mean that everything will stop to protect their view.
Its just a matter of time until all available land is developed. The beachside location is too good to leave undeveloped.
If you want sea views then you have to buy where you cannot be built out or buy the land in front yourself.
Well, anyone can see this is a topic of interest, curiosity and debate. What we need more than anything is INFORMATION.
So,"StopVT7", PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW. We'd all like to know whether this case is going to be pursued further & whatever other news you can safely divulge. (Pretty hard to support something which may be lying dead in the water!)
My comment was intended to point out that VT gives not a damn about its own investors, let alone neighbours or the community. They are arrogant, lawless and would joyfully pour their concrete shake'n'bake slum buildings over every inch of Pattaya.
Yes, Dongtan Beach will fast become View Talay Alley.It will be the biggest building site in Pattaya-Jomtien.
Condo owners and beach users will be afflicted with continual construction noise for the next ten years,both from external new buildings and internal condo fitting out and conversion.
And all based upon a flimsy court decision which the next Pattaya administration could seek to overturn at a whim.Who would buy into that?
VT5 owners beware,keep your eyes on the Avalon Hotel,see how long that lasts!!.
The fact that stopvt7 requests for support, but doesnt answer any question over here, says enough.
Neither here nor on the thaivisa forum he cares to answer questions.
The case is dead, and stopvt7 is over.
You have to remember the Phoenix rose from the ashes.
If it was me I wouldn't be saying anything either.
To many vt goons around.
I agree,this case has legs yet,far to important to rest on the nonsense presented up to now.
Majority of the VT7 supporters are a pathetic excuse for adults, their comments remind me more of schoolboy gangs whose footie team one a game.
The new definition of the construction line is definately suss and it was definately worth fighting the construction of an ugly mass of concrete so close to any beach any where.
Sure it is the way of the world, glad I wont be having children and grandchildren to inherit this trashed planet. Hope your grandkids love concrete and shopping malls.
Architectural beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But VT7 looks like a very attractive building to me. Much better than JCC which stuck out and up like two sore thumbs.
VT7 and the other buildings scheduled will improve the area no end.
As Jomtien develops, the quality of the buildings are also getting better and better. Just look at the new projects planned.
Eventually many of the old eyesores will be re-developed but I think VT7 will have a long and popular life. Its an ideal beachside location for families and children.
How is the site progressing....any more photos available?
Richard!!!
Please give us an update!!
We want to join but you don't give us info!!!
And here was I worrying about you poor guys supporting the case all by yourselves. What a dope!
Hmm..
Interesting.
Seems to me like the expert witness is at odds with the supreme court's analysis here.
I suspect a comprimise will be reached with view talay getting away with vt3 and 5,but the law being applied to vt7,and so restricted to 14m.
Before we rush to join in a further fight it would help if we had some facts and not conjecture and opinion.
Who did the English language translation of the judgements for example? The court or the lawyers or who? Does it have any legal standing?
This site has already had very misleading 'helpful' illustrations of the alleged building line. It is currently topped by a photo of the VT7 site taken with a lens which gives the impression that VT7 is virtually on the beach. As the court apparently has shown...VT7 is actually more than 100 meters behind the construction control line.
A photo from the beach would give a completely different impression.
Facts are needed not wishful thinking and manipulative spin.
Wishful thinking and manipulative spin eh.
You should have told that to the expert witness!!!.
All the facts are in ministerial regulation 9.
vt7-case is in my opinion not only vt7-case, but it is the way how in thailand, money beats law.
whats a tourist-destination without clean, nice beaches?
whats an investment-opportunity without any protection for the investor?
should not all the government-organisations issue only legal documents?
please wake up! you are in thailand!
Corruption is the evil
And brings the hatred and injustice.
In Thailand is still the evil in power.
It is a shame to see how bad it to Thailand yet.
The police is in power and money.
There must be an end to the type of people well.
Thais hate corrupt police and judges
That is the truth.
Laws are simply suppressed.
Please, love and truth.
Not Corruption, hatred and injustice.
You have a very limit time to appeal (30 days?). Do you know that?
the hell with this. no point in support or discussions on a blogsite which can't be bothered to supply info.
Yes a shame.
Corruption to the highest offices.
Even mayors and other officials are also involved.
We know already all.
You have to remember the court proceedings are continuing.
Therefore you have to be carefull what you put in the public domain.
Walls have ears!
Agree that walls have ears. But, another side has to realise this as well. We are watching you !!! And, not only that, we are using our ears to listen.
Yes also in my experience of court proceedings that you have to be extremely careful about what you say outside the court.
You can be in contempt of court and also your adversarie can twist what you say.
So better to keep mum and keep your listening watching foe guessing.
Well... stopvt can at least give some info, like "we are working on it, thanks for the support" or something like that.
Now we don't even know IF he's working on it. Who knows, maybe he's already returned to his home country because they didn't give him a new visa....
That's right. I hear from unconfirmed sources in Pattaya he's resting his case.
I agree that it would be a courtesy, as well as an acknowledgement that this blogsite still has a point to it, to respond. There are uncontroversial things that could have been said long before now.
I agree. It's interesting for a while to bat around opinions & speculations based on logic, but this site's unresponsiveness is annoying and unnecessary. A simple "we'll let you know" would have been at least a sign of life. Like the man said "the hell with it".
The latest I have heard is that they will appeal the Rayong Admin Court's decision to allow work on VT7 to resume in the Supreme Administrative Court in Bangkok.
So there is still something going on apparently, though the lack of feedback here is very annoying.
No idea of the time frame involved, but VT7 is extending skywards at a rate of about 2 floors a month now, so it had better be soon or there will be no point.
It’s not enough to say you can help. You have to put your name on Pattaya City Hall blacked list. They are waiting for the people to get be kicked off, when they visa is due.
What I see that...VT7 has the permit back and continue the construction with the speed of light. The issue will be trickily (legally) dragged for a year or more. The case goes to a higher court. At the end the city (may be) guilty. But, who cares, VT7 finshed the project just right on the beach in front of you. Too late. What do you do?
What do you do?
You abide by the law,and take it back to 14m.
If you break the law its the Bangkok Hilton.
take it bak to 14metres just like demolish illegals on Walking street
Anybody has a problem with Walking street up to them to pursue.
Deal with vt7 on its own merits.
Make it comply with the law,so down to 14m.
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